When you say you have no time for a preacher who has no time for the cross of Christ, you are saying that Walter does not!! After watching only one Video how you can ascertain that? He has over 100 videos and you judge him after watching just one?
Well then, l have some news for you, Walter Veith has several videos on Jesus. If you go to his website you will see all these videos, l will mention just three of them. Just another man, Where Jesus walked,The revelation of Jesus Christ and so on. His dedication to teach and preach the word of God, His research and time spent all point to a man who is doing what we should be doing in these last days. My dear brother take time to watch any of the above videos and you will discover why he is attracting so much attention.

Dear Anne, You obviously have some feeling, as do I, about Mr. Veith's work and influence, thought for different reasons. I have heard from others that Walter Veith does have some video's about Christ, has taught some solid truth, and for that much I am glad. And he may be a very sincere Christian with good intentions. So...out of the hundreds of video's you mention, Walter Veith as "several on Jesus". The link I list above suggest to me that Mr. Veith has more than a passing interest in other things, things like conspiracy theories, secret societies, and a supposed "New World Order".

I few or more video's about Jesus do not account for the others, more than a few, where he wastes so much time on questionable, poorly researched, sensationalized subjects. In the video I saw, his use of material was unethical, intentionally using mere assertions and "facts" taken out of context to discredit or smear the characters of public figures who had no opportunity to respond. Other pastors, having looked at other videos, have come to the same conclusion. The power of these particular presentations have more in common with witchhunting than the gospel.

I know that he has found a following with some in the church. You should also know that many others, including church administrators and pastors, consider his use of so-called "facts" to be manipulative and harmful to a well-grounded faith. Perhaps he, like many, began on the right road but took a wrong turn.

On a personal level, even new, young Christians in my local church have been disturbed and confused by what they have seen. They have intuitively questioned Mr.Veith's intentions and unsupported accusations, but are confused because they were given this material by an older member. These young-in-faith Christians did not come to me with questions because of Mr. Veith's strong, vibrant presentations of truth, but because they found his accusations and arguments questionable, without solid proof, and therefore, unfair.

For example, Mr. Veith, in the video I saw, strongly implyied that American leaders, even the President, was responsible for the horror of 9/11. Anything is possible and someone is responsible, someone had motive enough to commit the act, but where is the proof it was the President of the Undited States or those directly under him? Nothing but speculative assertions were presented. Of course, it could be true. But is it in the Spirit of Christ to defame a persons character, put them on public trial and speak of them as the worst kind of murdering criminal without so much aa a shred of evidence. Loose connections of widely divergent circumstantial evidence is not accepted in a court of law. The rules of evidence, thankfully, still forbid it.

And suppose Mr. Veith had such a proof? What do such things have to do with advancing the interest of God's kingdom?

I am surprised that anyone who spends time studying the gospels, looking at the message, method, and person of Jesus Christ would find Mr. Veith's love of conspiracy theories remotely similar. I cannot imagine Jesus using film footage and photos to prove this handshake or that odd symbol meant all the world leaders belong to secret societies bent on establishing a new world older. What a misleading waste of time! There is nothing in the gospels or the rest of the Bible that does this. The Scriptures concern themselves with very practical matters of character in the light of God's eternal attributes. Even the most remarkable prophecies of Daniel and Revelation askew such methods.

Whatever good you find in Mr. Veith's other presentations, his unethical use of so-called 'facts' undermine the gospel in the eyes of reasonable men and women and will eventually find their way to the dustbin of history. If he does not change in this regard, he will find himself without influence, restricted to a continually shrinking circle of misguided followers. If he does not change, the sooner this happens the better.

If you think Mr. Veith's work is truly what "we should be doing in the last days" then I would ask you to show me from Scripture God's great interest in secret societies and conspiracy theories, that our work as Christians is to publicly accuse men and women of the grossest crimes without a shred of reasonable evidence. I see nothing Christian in that at all. But you are welcome to prove me wrong.

What you have said has a truth in it, it does seem unethical to say things you cannot prove, Professor Walter Veith is not a preacher l believe God has given him a special message for us in this last days. Just like he has given us Mr Brian S Neumann to teach about Music today. l believe that Walter Veith's work is to warn us of the deceptions that are out there in the world. Personally l am very glad because l have understood so much about the deceptive ways of satan. l think Christians should watch his videos and choose to believe what they want, Judging all his work as bad just because you do not agree with one is odd. He has done wonderful work on Creation , food and diet. He has hundreds of videos out there that are really amazing, are you going to dismiss him because he said something about George Bush? {By the way he is not the first to say those words, there are people who do believe that he indeed knew about the event before it happened. l agree with you it is rumors and as Christians we should not spread them}. But should we throw out the baby with the bath water?
Prof. Veith is not perfect, but who is? Is he not just a mortal and prone to err like you and me? Who are we to judge him? l have watched many of his videos and l believe he loves the Lord with all his heart and his work shows such love, l would urge you to watch a few more before you give up on him.
It will be sad and just what the devil would want if we were to dismiss him, He has fearlessly exposed so many deceptions that are out there that Satan would want to silence him, please don't be among the ones who fight him, not before you have seen several of his work. You will only be doing the devil a favor.
l would pray about it and ask the Lord for guidance before l tell others not to watch or listen to him.
May the Lord God be with you as you ponder these things and may He lead you to make the right decision. For only He who said, whoever is not against us is for us, knows on whose side Walter Veith is. You, my dear brother, do not.

I suppose it's wiser to dismiss Dr. Veith's work and then suggest something of your own. Otherwise, you stand risk of sounding unfulfilled in your private world.

Anne, My experience and short survey of Veith videos puts him in a familiar mold. I have never found value in the work of conspiracy theorist and I believe that is Veith's position. What other valuable work he has done can stand on it's own. I still believe he has compromised his authority with his misuse of 'facts'. I'll leave it at that.

Dbay, I confess to being a bit slow from time to time. Could you expand your thought for me?

Mr. Jan M.
If you are so determined to crush,demean,disprove or even call to question
any of the information that Walter V. has enlightened us about then take it
piece by piece all the quotations from the immense amount of material he
refers to and see if you have written proof to refute and disprove such
information that you do not agree with. The Bible teaches that the true
manifestation of evil always works behind 'dark, secretive shadows' and
never in the light of knowledge and open accessible information. I
challenge you to take all the enlightened information that is in writing
just one eg. 'The Islamic connection" CD and take it to all the referred
sources and and bring it in writing by authentic and reliable sources
and present your case. Thats fair. It is wrong for you to hide behind
the facade of saying that 'that advance the interest of God's kingdom'
who are we to advance His kingdom. You and us all are 'DUST' and God
has given us an awesome privilege and responsibility to spread His Gospel
and to enlighten us through His inspired writers of the 'Great Deception'
that is to reveal itself and has already been setup at the appointed time
our Holy God decides to let it execute it's full fury. Many souls have
given their lives to preserve and propagate the undiluted Word of God
from the deceptive, secret, wicked, godless and Jesus Christ haters
humans who are vicious and destructive agents and co-conspirers with the
arch enemy the evil, dragon to carry out his deadly mission. To this I
ask you what would be wrong if God through His servants would reveal
the plans of the ultimate deception to 'His people'. The flip side of
this is to those who choose intentionally to evade, distort and falsify
the information God reveals to us, will be sent 'delusions' to further
confuse and decieve 'the very elect'. It will be wise for you to base
your refuting charges from authentic and dependable sources and get to
the core of your charges directly from the vatican library of information
and find out and inform us if the Biblical position of the war of good
and evil is between the dragon and where is the seat of her power and
does she unite with. Last point, start with the premise you can disprove
Walter Veith's information and see wher it leads you "honestly".

John H

Texas

John,

You have obviously spent many hours under Dr. Veith's teaching and are free to continue. I find the most sound spiritual teaching in studying the Scriptures for myself. I won't waste my time with conspiracy theories or with those who teach them, whether or not they have some truth. Nor will I be taking your suggestion to read through Vatican Library materials.

We expose evil, wherever it is found, not by studying evil, but by knowing and living the truth as it is in Jesus Christ. Should the disciples of Dr. Veith begin talking of Jesus Christ with the same fervor they denounce the Catholic Church, the Freemasons, or the Devil himself, then I might begin to take an interest. Jesus said a tree is known by it's fruit. Sadly, the ones I've known are more occupied with the sins of others than with the Lord who paid for those sins with his own blood. As a pastor, I can only hope they will someday spend as much time praying over their own shortcomings.

The Scriptures are perfectly adequate in explaining themselves. Less videos and more of Scripture would be my recommendation for anyone interested in what God has to say.

Those who find it necessary to compile large dossiers of extra-Biblical "proof" to expose the evil imaginings of humanity misunderstand the most basic doctrine of divine revelation. I have not found such a method consistent with Scripture itself. I see no example of his method in the teachings of Jesus, who simply asked, "What have you read in the Scriptures"? The secrets of human hearts are exposed in the Scriptures. Mine certainly have been, as are yours. I have known for years what goes on behind closed doors.

This will be my last word on Dr. Veith, at least for the near future. I offer my other comments and the archives of my postings to support my understanding of God's work in Christ for our salvation.

Of course, anyone else is free to continue the discussion in a reasonable way. I've said my piece.

23.06.08 I deleted the comment here. I consider large 'cut and paste' insertions as spam. This is not the place for that. It is for personal comments and discussion. I will block your IP address if you do it again. -Jan

You obviously don't know what you are talking about. I have known Walter Veith for about 20 years. He is a personal friend of mine and we have worked together many times. I am an ardent preacher of the gospel message. I have been branded a "gospel freak" by many Adventists and I am the kind of person (and worker) Walter keeps company with. I don't always agree with the way that he says things but I have learned to be humble, very humble. I have been wrong many times. I have seen that God uses all kinds of people and methods to reach a variety of people. There is also the testimony of thousands who came to profess Jesus because of Walter’s work. Some of them have paid with their lives for confessing Jesus. Be careful not to stand in God's way.

Pieter, I appreciate your feelings and I don't doubt what you say is true in your experience. I've said in above comments that this may be the case. I agree with you that we all should be humbled that God would use any of us in his work. I'm sure he has used Dr. Veith in the way you say. Perhaps it is the nature of video ministries that the later work can overshadow what has already been done.

However, despite what you say, Dr. Veith is openly indulging a fondness for conspiracy theories. This undermines the gospel you confess. After watching one of his videos, lasting more than an hour, in which there was nothing but conspiracy theories, supported with mere assertions and void of 'facts', and without an ounce of the gospel you say you love, I felt angry and embarrassed that this kind of thinking is passed around as Seventh-day Adventist doctrine. You have your personal experience to guide you. All I have is this rubbish that is clearly not 'God's way' of doing things.

Nor am I impressed with the influence his videos have on church members. You have clearly had a different experience than myself. The ones I know suppose they have a higher experience than they do, imagining their insights about the Illuminati, the Freemasons, and the Pope are the good news we all need. If they had as much insight into their own character they would find a better way to spend their time, perhaps in prayer and Bible study, pleading with God to help them overcome their own little secret sins, which in fact are hardly secrets at all.

As long as Dr. Veith indulges his love of conspiracy theories and teaches others to do the same, I'll continue to object.

Jan, when I first watched one of Walter Veith's videos, I was amazed. I took notes in a frenzy. Since I was visiting someone at the time, I couldn't get as much references as I wanted. This is what I did...I went home logged on to his site, and listened to the audio of one of his videos. I took notes, I paused the lecture, reference by reference, I went online to the various websites to seek validity to his claims. Dr. Veith is, without question, absolutely right! Have you done any research on the material he speaks of? Hmmmmm. If you haven't, I would suggest that instead of berating him and his work that you do the research for yourself. You are doing yourself and others a disservice when you make assertions that are not undergirded with truth nor research. I am not trying to offend you, but I challenge you to look up,or investigate his research. When all is said and done, Calvary is what really matters most, and the acceptance of Christ's free gift of salvation. However, it is imperative that we do not remain ignorant pertaining to those things that liberate us. We must be open and receptive to information that points us to the truth behind every evil deed. Personally, I am grateful that Dr. Veith is bold and courageous enough to "tell it like it is" based on firm research, and the infallible Word of God. Be Blessed Always!

SRS, I'm thankful Dr. Veith has been a blessing to you. I some others have had your experience. Still, with respect, I can't agree with his presentations that concentrate on conspiracy theories. I'm very familiar with his claims, which other conspiracy theorist, many who are not Christian, have been making for decades or more. This is not new to me. I believe your confusing assertions with 'facts'.

I see no such example in Christ, nor do I agree with how he applies these theories to passages in the book of Revelation. He is using some unsound principles of interpretation that are giving a wrong meaning to some of the text.

None of us are perfect and all are in need of Christ' tender mercies. I would only advice caution regarding these things. I have not found them as inspiring or enlightening as yourself.

God bless and thanks for taking the time to write.

Veith has lost all respect from me after showing that the sources which he has cited to support his conspiracy theories do not in actual fact support it. Just look how he misquotes the Ausberg Confession of Faith about 51 minutes into the vido here (Total Onslaught series). He tries to appear shcolarly, but IMO he is just blowing smoke, lots of it.

Thank you Daniel. As you can see from the comments above, your the first that has agreed with me. I have found it incredible for a man with a Ph.D to present work that would not be acceptable for a first-year undergraduate student. My professors would have rightly failed me for using sources this way.

Amen and Hallelujah. Walter Veith is an embarrassment to the SDA Church here in South Africa and around the world. He has no training in history or theology and it shows. He ignores evidence, misreads references, misquotes sources and generally just makes things up. His many conspiracy theories about Freemasonry, the Illuminati, and the Catholic Church--to name a few strands in his web of ignorance--would be laughable were they not so influential. It's tragic that he was ordained by a SDA Conference & employed as a Conference evangelist.

Well put Jeff. Here is a BBC link to their page called the Conspiracy Files, which takes a look at some of the outlandish claims being made. I found their recently aired documentary on the subject to hit the mark.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/conspiracy_files/

Jan:

I totally agree with your assessment of the content of Dr. Veith's material. Nevertheless, I have seen atheists converted by watching his videos. I have seen nominal Adventists say, "Now I know why it's important to be an Adventist and not just a Christian," after attending his presentations. I can't say that the man isn't a true Christian or that God can't work through him. I praise God, when I see lives changed for the better because of his stuff, but more often I've seen extremists being made even more fanatical.

The point is, as pastors, we have better tools at our disposal for doing the Lord's work. Veith's material, in my opinion, is the spiritual equivalent of a summer blockbuster movie--sensational but lacking in substance. We need to point members with interests in last-day events to more balanced work by scholars such as Paulien and authors like Moore.

Hi David. Good to hear from you again. I think you've got it about right, though I'm not as charitable when it comes to his negative influence. It's a very poor example, especially to new believers, regarding the way to interpret Scripture.

On a personal note, I see your back to blogging. I'd lost touch since you took your hiatus. I take it your at Andrews now. Is that for graduate work? I'll drop by your blog and also put you back on my blogroll.

How sad it is that people will not open their minds to Walter Veith's lectures. They are SO wonderful! If they did, they would see that he entirely PROVES what he says in his lectures! All his evidence consists of documented proof and statements that are not his own, and cannot be gainsaid! People just don't WANT to accept the evidence, which is the pity. This world is being run by malevolent people very much behind the scenes, just as Professor Veith states, and the agenda they have WILL be fulfilled, as the Bible predicts; albeit not for long. People need to be warned of this before it happens, or they will be lost. All Walter Veith is doing is trying to reach people and have them accept Jesus Christ before it is too late for them to do so. As for saying he "doesn't talk much about his Lord"- for goodness sake! This man is a genuine Christian who loves His Lord very much - and if the people criticising him WOULD ONLY VIEW his DVDs, patiently and with an OPEN MIND, they would have this revealed to them. The fact that he is addressing very major and vitally important facts in his lectures does not detract from his relationship with Christ; nor does it prove or even indicate he is not a genuine Christian. He has such an incredible amount of material specific to the subject he is presenting - he can't talk about how He loves Jesus every lecture, night after night! I advise you to HEAR what he says, because there are some really terrible things coming on this earth, and there is only ONE way to escape them.

Adam, I and many others have viewed his DVD's and do not find the remarkable evidence you say is there. Nor would I or have I say he is not a Christian.

Any criticism of Dr Veith is being undermined by the flippant use of the word 'conspiracy'. Until you expand on what you think are pure fiction, half truths or outright lies in his series you merely sound like someone who does not like the man.

Will, I don't see how my use of the word conspiracy is flippant. Perhaps I was wrong in assuming my readers would be familiar with the general run of conspiracy theorist.

There are historians and theologians who would gladly refute his claims if he actually offered documentation that supports them. Few have the time to sit through hour upon hour of DVD presentations, try to find what sources he refers to, then check the facts. I know I don't. I reject what I have had time to listen simply because he provides no specific context for his 'facts'. His methodology is so suspect I don't have reason to go further.

Why should myself and others be sidetracked from our ministries by a fact checking journey when on the face of it, his logic is so fallacious? I feel I have already given far more time to his spurious reasoning than I should. I only have gone this far because of the negative influence he has had on several people I know and care about.

Dr. Veith will show a photograph of two public figures shaking hands and then assert they are Freemasons because, he tells us, this is a secret Masonic handshake. We are simply asked to take his word for it. He strings assertion after assertion together with similar photos or news stories, always leaving the context muddy, disconnected.

He will talk about Alpha brain waves, then, without any proof, suggest the Alpha Course (A Christian seminar for introducing postmodern people to Christ) is evil. He makes this suggestion based on the fact that sharing the word Alpha makes them suspect. He did this very thing before a group of pastors and administrators who could only sit, dumbfounded by his absurd logic.

Because Bill Clinton or another President meets with the Pope, they must, therefore, be part of a conspiracy. That is not proof, but mere slander.

He follows in the footsteps of many other conspiracy theorist who are trying to say President Busch and the CIA planned and executed the destruction of the World Trade Center buildings on 9/11. He does so as an ordained minister of the Seventh-day Adventist church, which I think is misrepresents our calling as teachers of the gospel. There is no Biblical example for doing so, nor is it consistent with a sound Biblical theology of discipleship.

He has also tried to make a case that the King James Version of the Bible is being undermined by a conspiracy of scholars to take God's word away from people before the coming of Christ, asserting quite ignorantly that the Textus Receptus codex is superior to all others. He does this without training as a theologian or historian. Though his historical understanding of textual criticism and the claims he makes have been openly refuted by leading theologians of his own church, he continues to upset the faith of fellow members who, again, are asked to take his word as fact without sound documentation.

You also might consider Jeff Crocoombe's comment above. Jeff is a well-known Seventh-day Adventist historian teaching for the church in South Africa. He finds Dr. Veith's methods equally suspect. He and others would explore this further if Dr. Veith could provide the level of documentation and argument his own field of study, Zoology, would have demanded.

This is about as much expansion as I have time for, Will. I hope it helps some, although I have not known a conspiracy theorist like Dr. Veith to change their mind. They often see objections like my own as further proof of conspiracies. Let me help them. My stepfather was a Freemason. That only should be enough to make me a suspect. If that tidbit leads someone astray, the sooner the better. They deserve what comes.

Here is a link to a 9 min. Veith clip I've posted elsewhere: http://thejerichoroad.com/home/2008/7/1/what-you-are-saying.html

I am from Mosselbay, South Africa and here Veith is big. I am a Boer and is still busy learnig English. Pardon my lanuage please.

He is busy misleading people and Young Christians. PHilippians 3:8"But nay, rather I also count all things to be loss because of the excelency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, my Lord, for whose sake I have suffered, the loss of all things, AND COUNT THEM TO BE TRASH..."

SAUL was a very influencial man, he knew about all the conspiracies and stuff among the rulers, the Agrippa even knew him by name. And never would we hear Paul saying something other than Christ and Christ alone because for a born again Christian the rest is trash.

The reason why we as Christians come together on Sunday's is because of Christ being resurrected on the first day. He has broken through satan and sun-worship and became the true light (1 John 1:7; John 1:5 and 8). Even the prophets cauld Jesus the light: MAlachi 4:2 - " The Sun of righteousniss will rise up, and healing will be on his wings."

Why all this?

In Egipt they worshipped the sun (Pray to God throw the sun) and when the Israelites were freed(Exodus) from Egipt the Lord himself made a new day of worship, Saturday. The reason is simple they don't need to worship through the sun, they now have the true God(Jahwe). They have someone who enter in conversation with God for them Moses later Josua and the prophets etc. They don't need the sun.

But the true SUn Jesus is on its way. The Fog over the true religion is passing away, Jesus is the only way to get to the Father.

On Sunday his resurrection day. From there-on that is the Sabbath for Christians it is not the ELlimanti or some bad dude that changed Saturday as the Sabbath to Sunday as Veith claim it to be. But it is God Himself through Christ.

The first Christians espesially from Jewish background risked their lives to use the first day as the sabbath. Why would they do that, if some dude of a culture they don't even know changed it? That just doesn't make sense do it?

Veith is false.

But isn't it that the devil's work is all about deception, secrecy and conspiracy and to rebel against the Almighty God the Father by doing what He hates the most? Did Judas Iscariot and those who hated Lord Jesus Christ not conspired to kill Him?

All these years, centuries and millenniums the Gospels of Lord Jesus Christ were taught to people. But why is it that they seem not to sink-in that easy to others and the fruits seen from others are not good? Isn't it clearly suspect that wolves in sheep's skin, from the religous to the secular level, conspire to mislead people because their hearts were not really for our Almighty God the Father?

I'd rather listen to Walter Veith than swallow hook-line-and-sinker tainted doctrines from religious leaders that cannot or are lazy to spread the Gospels of Lord Jesus Christ if there are no monetary returns.

Though we don't know each other personally, there are similarities between what changed Walter Veith and myself to become Christians and these are the reality that there are evil spirits and that the 2nd Commandment was deleted from the Catholic version of the 10 Comandments.

As for conspiracies and secret societies, are fraternities and their violent culture not examples of these?

It will only take a short trip on the net to find sites that reveal the evils of these groups and the havoc they inflict on others either physically, psychologically or whatever.

And because this is mainly a spiritual battle where the enemy is not the flesh but the evil one, isn't it that we need to be on guard at all times against all his evil designs and manipulations?

I still have to watch all of Veith's videos and to give him the benefit of the doubt. But the pictures he presented are strong enough for us to see what needs to be realized.

Furthermore, in my younger years as catholic I have this fear what if the Bible we were reading were not the real complete ones but instead tampered and tainted. Seeing Veith's comparison of the different versions will rock a believer from his seat. But my only strong consolation and belief eversince is that because the one who inspired those who wrote the Holy Bible was no other than our Almighty God the Father it is only He who has the Supreme power to reveal the truth to those who are wholeheartedly seeking Him to love and serve Him for He looks at a man's heart and not on his outer appearance.

Based on the Holy Bible, the telltale signs of the deceivers or wolves in sheep's skin are white-washed walls and leavened bread or pots that are clean outside but full of stinky things inside.

This simple fact alone that what is rotten and stinky is being kept inside or swept under the rug so that others will not see are the works of conspirators and has a very strong comparison to the fact that our Almighty God the Father looks at the purity of the hearts of men and not on their outward appearance.

What the devil want to keep in the dark our Almighty God the Father will expose in the light.

As for the young Christians...don't waste your time on useless worldly things. STUDY and try to discern everything and pray for answers to our God the Father Almighty with the help of our Lord Jesus Christ!

Joel, I'll let my previous comments stand as my reply. I would only add that the very church Dr. Veith wants to faithfully serve is in strong disagreement with him over several things, including his misleading statements regarding the use of modern versions of the Bible. I have some .pdf files for download on this subject which you can find in the sidebar links.

Reading the title of this object of discussion "Why I Won't Watch Walter Veith Videos" I have only one thing in mind: DO NOT JUDGE THE BOOK BY ITS COVER.

If the Holy Bible warned us of wolves in sheep's clothing we have to be aware and stand on guard against all the designs of the evil one. To dismiss Walter Veith's videos and its supporting data even if we have not seen them all yet or refuse to see it is tantamount to judging him without knowing the whole truth.

If he is telling lies and spreading lies then he, if he is really a servant of falsehood, will be exposed later for our Almighty God the Father will have the last say about all things. But if he is a servant of Him, the Almighty God who sees men's heart and their purity, then he will continue to succeed in changing people's lives to return to the true worship of our Almighty God the Father.

Also, if Dr. Veith really has strong faith in our Almighty God the Father through Lord Jesus Christ, then He will correct him. Let us just pray for him now that he is our fellow Christian who left atheism and that he be really guided accordingly.

Jan:

You're very welcome.

Joel:

I have seen and critiqued one entire video of about 1 hour 20mins by Veith in his Total Onslaught series here and here. What immediately totally disqualified him as knowledgeable and competent for me is his inaccurate quotations of sources like the various historic Protestant confessions and even the NPNF (Nicene Post-Nicene Fathers). This is simply dishonest.

Thanks Daniel. I'll have a look at your work....

I'm back. I tried to leave a comment on your blog but I don't meet the Blogger criteria there.

I see your very anti-Sabbatarian. As you know, I am an Adventist pastor and would strongly disagree with some of your own exegesis regarding the Sabbath. I share some of your problems with Dr. Veith's methodology, but his misstatements in themselves do not change my Biblical understanding of the Sabbath.

Your have a misunderstanding of Adventist exegetical methods, perhaps coloured by Veith and others. Here is a more representative link to an official Adventist exposition of the Sabbath by one of our prominent theologians. http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/sabbath-catholic2002.htm

If I have read the bible correctly, the plot to murder Jesus was a conspiracy. It was a conspiracy by the Jewish leaders, by Herod when Jesus was born, etc. The great controversy between Christ and Satan IS a great conspiracy against Jesus and his
people.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Eph. 6:12

Yes, Katrina, I agree, However, in the present context of our discussion about Dr. Veith, it sounds as if your saying because conspiracies exist and because Judas plotted to betray Christ with the Pharisees, then that justifies Christ' ministers making secret societies and conspiracy theories a large part of their work. The example of Jesus, who ministered amid many political intrigues, reveals a very different way of dealing with evil. He exposed what was in the human heart, one heart at a time, by walking among us as the living Truth. I have no call of God to examine the Illuminati, the Freemasons, etc. I may warn others not to indulge in secret societies as a matter of principle, but that is not the same thing as concocting theories about their activities and using illogical arguments to twist 'facts' to fit my preconceived ideas. As you say, my fight is not with flesh and blood.

Jan:

My response to Veith was due to a friend being influenced by it, so I was responding to it. And I happened to stumble unto your blog in the course of my research, and realized you are a SDA pastor later after posting my first comment.

Regardless, you can rest assure that I do understand the SDA rationale for keeping the seventh-day Sabbath, and I still reject it. In point of fact, I have consolidated my position on the Law and the Sabbath before I even address Veith's atrocious video, which you can read here and here. The issue here between us is not just about the Sabbath, but on the usage of the Law and hermeneutics in general. You interpret the New Testament according to the Old Testament (at least that article does), but I do the reverse. I utilize the biblical and historic Redemptive Covenantal Theology matrix to Scripture, and therefore arrive at my conclusions on this issue.

I would rather not take up your webspace to discuss this issue if you do not wish to do so here, but I think one distinct disavantage you have in addressing this topic is that the NT texts in Heb. 4 and the book of Galations for example cannot be adequately addressed in context according to grammatico-historical exegesis if one were to abide by seventh-day s